tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post115073234578278419..comments2023-11-05T00:29:50.421-07:00Comments on The Rebellious Pastor's Wife: RPWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16686240798146992394noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-60132079736957601952009-09-10T04:47:49.508-07:002009-09-10T04:47:49.508-07:00"It seems to me that we are making all of thi..."It seems to me that we are making all of this too complicated."<br /><br />I have always thought so. In our congregation, too many people have the otion (in my opinion, anyway) that confirmation and communion MUST be connected to a set of years, not what the confirmand or communicant believes or knows.Gunfighterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05762432006297768871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1153603214979453782006-07-22T14:20:00.000-07:002006-07-22T14:20:00.000-07:00Greg's "peripheral vision" concern is an important...Greg's "peripheral vision" concern is an important category in many discussions. But if withholding the Sacrament from children is really wrongheaded, I wonder if we should be taking it into consideration.<BR/><BR/>In the fourth century, when delaying baptism till the deathbed was common, would baptizing at conversion not have presented the same kind of problem? I'm sure some would have regarded following normative Biblical practice destructive of churchly order.solarbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506179756577015681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1152630717301863002006-07-11T08:11:00.000-07:002006-07-11T08:11:00.000-07:00Sorry it took me so long to respond. I had stumbl...Sorry it took me so long to respond. I had stumbled on to your blog, and had not returned. Then, I was on vacation for a week. I'm impressed that you took the time to formulate such a thoughtful response. Thanks. That is the sort of dialogue that is helpful in the Church.<BR/><BR/>I like what you had to say in your response. I do think some of my comments were taken out of context, or misunderstood. Most likely, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I'll respond to your newest post.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15958311988623152949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1151602518138472892006-06-29T10:35:00.000-07:002006-06-29T10:35:00.000-07:00Greg, You brought up some interesting points t...Greg,<BR/><BR/> You brought up some interesting points that I would love to discuss. I looked on your blog but there was no email. You brought up enough that it is really kind of difficult for me to answer in the comments section (this little narrow format gets to me). Would you mind if I did it as a main post?RPWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16686240798146992394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1151384521667473642006-06-26T22:02:00.000-07:002006-06-26T22:02:00.000-07:00Some good thoughts here--thoughts that surely ackn...Some good thoughts here--thoughts that surely acknowledge the perocial aspect of the LC-MS, and the freedom which it affords.<BR/><BR/>Here some thoughts to consider:<BR/>As a part of a synod, what impact might there be on other congregations (community, circuit, district, etc.) when the decision is made to welcome children to the table on an individual basis? Might some "peripheral vision" be in order? <BR/><BR/>Consider this example: Currently I am teaching an 11-week new-member class. One of the students, a woman who was baptized years ago, asked me after our first class whether or not she should commune. She said that she had asked an Elder at a service a few weeks before, and he had told her that as long as she was baptized and had faith, she could go. Now, what am I to do? As a part of a "confirmation class," albeit adult, if I allowed her to commune while having the rest of the class wait until they are "ready" (in this case, upon their confirmation and welcoming into the visible church), I risk denying the horizontal element involved in communion-the confession of a common faith. For the sake of good order, might it be helpful to ask her to refrain until she is confirmed with her class? <BR/><BR/>*This doesn't even address the fact that the Elder's questions were probably insufficient.*<BR/><BR/>So often, when using 1 Corinthians 11 to "stretch" the agreed upon understanding of "close" communion, people ignore the fact that Paul is writing to a specific congregation, and that those individuals he is addressing have been previously taught. So, if Paul sees it fit to withhold the Supper from members of a congregation, might it follow that we may need to do the same-youth or adult?<BR/><BR/>Finally, assuming you haven't gotten tired of me yet, we must be careful not to take our confessions out of their context. What did Luther, Melancthon, and the other reformers mean when they confessed that "he who believes" takes his rightful place at the Sacrament? Did they commune children before they had received proper, sometimes years, of instruction? No, in fact, those who had not received sufficienct instruction left the sanctuary just prior to the "Service of Holy Communion."<BR/><BR/>These are just some thoughts. Take them for what they are worth.<BR/><BR/>God bless!Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15958311988623152949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1150994463105481362006-06-22T09:41:00.000-07:002006-06-22T09:41:00.000-07:00Yellow,Back during the Reformation, the Lutherans ...Yellow,<BR/><BR/>Back during the Reformation, the Lutherans were called upon to defend their teachings against various accusations from the Catholic church....the leading theologians came together and wrote several different statements that stated what we truly believed and taught. These were brought together in the Book of Concord, and are still the clearest expressions of our doctrine that we have. They don't have Biblical status, but are taken from the Bible.<BR/><BR/>In many ways, I think what you describe is a good thing..the parents training the children in the faith, and recognizing that they are ready to commune. Luther wrote the Small Catechism, and each part starts "in which the head of the family shall teach them to his household." The Bible repeatedly makes it clear that it is the family's job, most notably the father, to train the children in the faith.<BR/><BR/>It used to be commonplace for the parents to bring the children to the pastor to be examined when they thought they were ready to commune. The pastor would examine them privately and then would declare them ready to commune.<BR/><BR/>Lutherans are very careful with Communion because we do believe something about it that most other Protestant Churches do not. We believe in the real presence. When Christ said "Take eat, this IS My body given for you" and "This IS My blood of the new covenant given for you" He didn't say "this represents." So we believe that when the bread and wine are combined with the Word...that Christ's body and blood are really there with the bread and the wine through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is one of the three ways that God bestows forgiveness of sins (Matt. 26:28). The other two are through Scripture and through Holy Baptism. <BR/><BR/>Take that in context with I Corinthians 11:29 "For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly." then our pastors, as undershepherds in charge of our Lord's flock until He returns, take it seriously that they not cause anyone to sin against the body of Christ...to protect them. So our pastors need to make sure that those who come to the table believe that they are receiving Christ's body and blood as well as the bread and the wine, as the Bible teaches.<BR/><BR/>The problem is, that there is a viscious cycle in the church. Sunday School and confirmation classes were started because the children were not getting taught. Then, the parents come to believe that it isn't their job, it's the church's, because they have Sunday School and confirmation class. I'm not against the classes in and of themselves, because learning in the context of the congregation has its place....I just would like to see the parents take their rightful place as the primary teachers of their children and see children who do have faith come to Communion, regardless of their age.RPWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16686240798146992394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1150903568937068342006-06-21T08:26:00.000-07:002006-06-21T08:26:00.000-07:00Wow. It sounds complicated to me. I'm not famili...Wow. It sounds complicated to me. I'm not familiar with the Lutheran church and the 'Book of Concord' but in our church, we waited until we knew our children could understand what communion is and that we are to remember Christ and His sacrifice for us. We left the decision to each parent for their own child. We always allowed time for examining our own hearts, as well. Your blog is very interesting. Thank you for writing and i hope you get to do it more often.Traci Vanderbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13612977759435616667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17691136.post-1150752343969190682006-06-19T14:25:00.000-07:002006-06-19T14:25:00.000-07:00Younger doesn't necessarily mean less knowledgable...Younger doesn't necessarily mean less knowledgable, either. My recently-confirmed 10 year old knows and understands far more than I did after my two years of confirmation ening at age 14.<BR/><BR/>Great post! Glad to "see" you again!Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984938560695736640noreply@blogger.com